Which kind of 78 records can you use with a new Mono 78 Stylus? « Tim's Phonographs and Old Records Forum

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Which kind of 78 records can you use with a new Mono 78 Stylus?

(6 posts) (4 voices)

Started 1 year ago by vintagegrma
Latest reply from sadri121

vintagegrma
Member

We have purchased a NEW Shure M78S 1/2" mount--2.5 MIL Spherical Tip--1.5-3.0 g Tracking Force cartridge and stylus from an on-line needle store.
This will be used on a Garrard SL 95-B turntable to play our many 10 & 12 inch 78 records.

Our question is which 78 records can we safely play using this new stylus? We did not realize that people were still using steel needles way into the 40's--esp. with Victor records. We realize that the 78's from the 20's and 30's are out but can someone explain the best way to determine which 78's should still be played with the steel needles & which 78 records ?? with the newer diamond/sapphire style needles.

Also some 78's produced in the 1950's appear to be vinyl and we would assume you would not play these records with our M78S stylus. Any thoughts??

We are anxious to start cleaning up and playing our record collection but as you can read need to educate ourselves a little more. We hope this forum can help us out. We don't want to damage records or needles.

Also some on-line stores sell cleaning solutions without alcohol for 78 records--anyone out there with any experience on cleaning 78's--which kinds are safe to clean with a non-alcohol based cleaner? Would this be safe on early 20's and 30's records?

We do have a 1928 Victor Talking Machine Victrola VV 4-40 unit to play the older 78's on.

One more: Where are record dates of production hidden on records? Victor and Columbia Record Lists in Book form are helpful but it sure would be easier to crack the code, so to speak on the record itself if possible.

Thanks & everyone & Keep Winding! VG

Posted 1 year ago #
Joe Patterson
Member

Records made prior to the early 1930's were made with the assumption that they would be played on acoustical players, in which a diaphram is driven by the needle on the record. thus all of the acoustical power of the resulting sound was driven by the record itself. By the late 1930's, it was assumed that most players were electronic, and the records no longer faced such heavy loading. The new records were quieter, but wore quickly when played on an old, acoustical machine. because of the heavy loading, diamond needles produced excessive wear, and it was recommended that they NOT be used. Recommended were steel needles, or hard organic ones such as Cactus needles. Small hand-held sharpeners for cactus needles were common, and the needles needed to be sharpened every couple of plays. Steel and cactus needles are still available.
Modern phono cartridges (either moving iron or moving coil types) place only a tiny fraction of the loading on the record produced by the old reproducers. Modern diamond tipped styluses, used with modern reproducers, do not put excessive loads on the records, wear very slowly, and are highly recommended for ALL records, regardless of age. Your new Shure cartridge should do just fine for ALL of your 78's, but be sure to use a 3-mil stylus! I am presently using a Shure cartridge myself! If you want to play your old records on a horn-type phonograph, steel or cactus needles are acceptable for records made during the acoustical period, but don't play newer ones on them. Even on old records, wear will be greater than with a modern reproducer.

As for non-alcholic cleaners, Geoffrey Brown, curator of Conservation at the kelsey Museum at the University of Michigan, has written a piece on cleaning shellac discs. He recommends using Labtone detergent with deionized water. (Labtone is a proprietary brand name of VWR Scientific.) With shellac records, any water must be removed quickly and the record dried thoroughly. I found that Labtone is available only in large containers, and costs over $90 for 8 lbs.
The Nitty-Gritty cleaning device from Great britain is supposed to be quite effective, but it, too is expensive, with models starting at just under $500. So, being retired, I am still looking myself!

Posted 10 months ago #
Joe Patterson
Member

I would like to make a correction on my last post. When I said to use a 3-mil stylus, I meant to not use a 1-mil stylus. Your 2.5-mil stylus is just fine!

Posted 10 months ago #
vintagegrma
Member

Hi Joe--your info puts our minds at ease. We have so many 78 albums (Tango and other ethnic music collections--waltzes--good ol' Bing Crosby sets, etc.) that were produced in the 30's and 40's and so hoping that we could skip the steel needle route recommended on the album covers and records & use this Shure cartridge without damaging the records. The on-line source-- Jerry Raskins Needle Dr thought this would be the best cartridge to use in our price range.

The Garrard 95B SL we will use has an adjustable weight on the end of the tonal arm. Any recommendations on a good setting for 78's with a more modern unit? Ha--I still think of the 60's as modern.

We will save the 20's records for the Victrola VV-40 and use steel needles.
"Keep on Winding" TC VG

Posted 9 months ago #
timinbovey
Member

As one who has transcribed hundreds, if not thousands of 78's of all eras for broadcast use, I can concur that your stylus will be just dandy for nearly every 78 you come across.

You may want to give some consideration to equalization, however. If you play through a modern turntable into a modern phono input, your records will be subject to the RIAA equalization curve which became the standard in the mid 50's but didn't exist when most 78's were made. In very general terms, this will give you too much bass and roll off the highs. the cheapest way around this is to find a phono pre-amp that has the ability to turn on and off the RIAA equalizatiion curve, and to use the auxilary, CD, video, or whatever other line input you have available rather than a phono input. If asked, I'll recommend a couple places online that sell them. You just don't get the full potential and sound quality from 78's through a modern RIAA phono input. I like the Rek-O-Kut Re-Equalizer, but that's a bit much for a casual listener. But it gives you several equalization schemes to try out.

As for your weight, what does the cartridge manufacturer list? I believe Shure lists 1.5 to 3 grams for that cartridge/stylus (going from memory here). I'd start at 2 and see how it goes.

Posted 7 months ago #
sadri121
Member

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Posted 4 months ago #

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